NVIDIA 780i: Evolution Plus Triple SLI

by Wesley Fink on 12/17/2007 9:00 AM EST
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  • Dogbyte13 - Monday, January 7, 2008 - link

    how come no 16x16 on the 750i? will there be a performance hit with 16x8?
  • edborden - Sunday, December 30, 2007 - link

    "The chipsets themselves, both 780i and 680i, are said to be perfectly capable of supporting Penryn if used on a modified board. It now appears a complete fix cannot be made with just a BIOS update for 680i; it is possible a BIOS update will allow dual-core Wolfdale to work as it should, but not quad-core Yorkfield. We will leave the official word for this with NVIDIA and their board partners."

    I just contacted my engineer at nVidia. He says:
    "We will be releasing a BIOS to support the Penryn Wolfdale's in the
    coming month, but there is no plan to support the Yorkfield quad-cores
    on NF680i."

    - Ed Borden, edborden.blogspot.com
  • edborden - Sunday, December 30, 2007 - link

    nVidia had a bunch of new technologies to debut, and they wanted to do it all at the same time, with a new platform launch. Accomplishing the tech refresh on what is essentially the same chipset technology isn't necessarily a fact that has to make it non-event.

    I'm happy it's here - we had some significant issues with the 680i chipset and I'm hoping a re-work, some new features, and the psychological effect of a new model will help with.

    Also, the XFX and eVGA partner boards (both identical, manufactured by nVidia) look ALOT better than their 680i predecessors. Better cooling, especially.

    I blogged recently about us implementing these chipsets in our systems at http://edborden.blogspot.com/2007/12/nvidia-triple...">http://edborden.blogspot.com/2007/12/nvidia-triple...
  • kevinkreiser - Tuesday, December 18, 2007 - link

    anyone know if the 780i might remedy the "display stopped responding" bug people like me are having? if so, it would be worth the upgrade.
  • Fallen Kell - Wednesday, December 19, 2007 - link

    I stopped having that problem when I changed what drivers I was using. However, since either the CPU or the motherboard is dead (don't know which because the Gigabyte board does not have a BIOS CPU test (i.e. no beep code for bad CPU), I can't tell for sure what is dead, and since I don't have another 775 CPU or 775 socket motherboard....)

    Anyway, I started getting the problem in August/September when I updated my drivers, but when I reverted back to previous drivers, the issue went away.
  • Fallen Kell - Tuesday, December 18, 2007 - link

    Without support for 1600 FSB anyone who buys this is just plain stupid. Nvidia has basically released a "fixed" 680i motherboard, and in reality people like myself who purchased the original 680i and did so because they were told, "Quad CPU, 1333 FSB, Penryn Support" should all be receiving these "fixed" boards for free... Without 1600 FSB support, you will not be able to use CPU's that arrive in 3 WEEKS! If it was 3 months, maybe a different story, but 3 WEEKS!!!!! Again, anyone who buys this is an idiot and a fool.
  • aka1nas - Wednesday, December 19, 2007 - link

    You'll only be unable to run a single Extreme Edition Quad-core part without OC'ing the FSB. Regular Penryns will not be released at 1600FSB.
  • ShantanuMalpani - Tuesday, December 18, 2007 - link

    While you have conducted a test with a single 8800 GTX, im surprised that you didnt conduct a test with two of them in SLI. with both the PCIE interconnects coming from a single bridge chip, and a rumour that they allow direct communication between them using the bridge chip(like first seen on RD580), there could be an improvement in SLI performance.
    Alternatively the added latency of going from the northbridge to the bridge chip might cause a decrease in performance.

    Also i assume that the NF200 bridge chip will be the one used in Skulltrail?
  • chizow - Monday, December 17, 2007 - link

    Will be somewhat interested to see the OC'ing and Triple SLI results tomorrow but overall this seems a disappointing release.

    Honestly, it looks as if Penryn/700i is actually going to be worst for the enthusiast unless NV managed to also work out their FSB problems. If these boards can't hit higher FSB speeds than the 600-series, the higher stock FSB on Penryn (read: lower multipliers, locked upwards) will only make it harder to OC.

    Also was interesting about the layout and routing of the PCI-E lanes. I must have missed the PCI-E course for dummies but it seems like this board just totally shatters the previous NB/SB model as one of the SLI cards is being routed through the SB (MCP) and 2 through an "auxiliary" (n200) chip? Will be interesting to see how this impacts performance as I was under the impression that the lanes/traces from memory controller to GPU/RAM/CPU were the main bottlenecks in current PCs and this configuration just seems to add more of them.
  • Frumious1 - Monday, December 17, 2007 - link

    I'm not sure if the article is "meh" or it it's the boards/chipsets. I'd have liked overclocking and additional performance results, and 3Dmark as a show of performance doesn't mean much outside of the ORB weenies. How about some actual games, and how about testing SLI with a couple of 8800GT cards to see if there are any tangible benefits to PCIe 2.0? I don't really expect much, but all we got was a "this is just 680i with a new chip on the board so we're not really doing much additional testing."

    I don't give a rip about Tri-SLI, but Penryn support and some actual testing of whether the new PCIe specification makes a difference would have been appreciated. Maybe we can get a follow-up article that's more of a real review instead of a quick chipset overview with some motherboard pictures thrown in at the end?
  • Wesley Fink - Tuesday, December 18, 2007 - link

    As mentioned in the article we also have a 780i overclocking review coming to answer your questions in more detail. This was a chipset launch, and there was little point of doing game tests when performance is the same as the well-tested 680i. The benchmarks we did run were just a sanity test to determine if 680i/780i really did perform the same, and they did.

    Anand is delving into Triple SLI performance and Gary Key will be doing an article on overclocking the 780i with Penryn. I will be following up later with an ESA system review, although the ESA test platform is actually is powered by a 680i.

    All of these reviews were planned to work together, but got sidetracked in our server crisis and image meltdown. You should see Anand's Gaming/Triple SLI review tomorrow.
  • Frumious1 - Tuesday, December 18, 2007 - link

    Since I don't have behind the scenes info, I'm left to conjecture. Maybe nVidia sent the hardware on Friday and you didn't have time, or maybe there were a bunch of testing issues. HardOCP seemed to be pretty unimpressed, but then what's new? Since this is a chipset launch article, with a few new features, I just felt we should see testing to check out how those features impact performance.

    SLI support, you've got SLI/Tri-SLI testing from Anand but that's with 8800 Ultra cards. It was a nice article, covering that area, but what about PCIe 2.0? Seems to be a part of the chipset, and some sanity checks with 8800GT SLI on both 680i and 780i would have been able to say if there was any actual difference. That wasn't done anywhere yet. That is not a motherboard review, or a Penryn overclocking article - that is a part of the chipset.

    ESA is a system thing as I understand it, so it makes sense to wait for a complete system review. Overclocking is also somewhat part of a chipset review, but as demonstrated in teh past it's also very motherboard specific. Otherwise why is it that Asus, DFI, etc. do better than some others?

    What it comes down to is that there appears to be one truly new and unique feature for 780i: PCIe 2.0 support. Well, and Penryn support, but that seems to be something that can be addressed on new 680i boards since 680i ~= 780i - nF200. You totally missed that in this "chipset launch review" by not even touching that with any form of benchmark. Show us some games, with PCIe 2.0 graphics cards, and show us whether there's any difference or not. That's what I want from an article looking at a new chipset - a focus on what's actually new.
  • Wesley Fink - Tuesday, December 18, 2007 - link

    We said in the review that the current top PCIe 2.0 cards like the 8800 GT do not even come close to saturating the past PCIe 1.1 bus. Since PCIe 2.0 is just a bandwidth increase, and nothing else, why would you expect it to make any difference at all in the performance of the 8800 GT? That was alreay a known before the chipset review.

    Anand tested with the 8800 Ultra because the 8800 GT will NOT work in triple SLI. You must have a dual SLI connector for triple SLI, and the 8800GT doesn't have a dual connector. That is very well-explained in Anand's 3-way SLI article, and only the near obsolete 8800GTX and 8800Ultra have the dual connector.

    Frankly we're always ready to test new technology, but the best I can figure the 780i SPP is a 680i SPP with the 16 lane PCIe connect overclocked to 4.5 GT/s. nVidia couldn't even quite reach the 5.0 GT/s level that is the PCIe 2.0 spec, but it really doesn't matter since PCIe 2.0 makes no difference today - it might in the future. The MCP is a 2-generations ago 570 MCP.

    Changing an ID string and stamping a chip with a new name does not make it new technology. The chipset works well and will fill in for a short period until nVidia introduces their new chipset that will support 1600 FSB and DDR3.

  • Wesley Fink - Tuesday, December 18, 2007 - link

    We said in the review that the current top PCIe 2.0 cards like the 8800 GT do not even come close to saturating the past PCIe 1.1 bus. Since PCIe 2.0 is just a bandwidth increase, and nothing else, why would you expect it to make any difference at all in the performance of the 8800 GT? That was alreay a known before the chipset review.

    Anand tested with the 8800 Ultra because the 8800 GT will NOT work in triple SLI. You must have a dual SLI connector for triple SLI, and the 8800GT doesn't have a dual connector. That is very well-explained in Anand's 3-way SLI article, and only the near obsolete 8800GTX and 8800Ultra have the dual connector.

    Frankly we're always ready to test new technology, but the best I can figure the 780i SPP is a 680i SPP with the 16 lane PCIe connect overclocked to 4.5 GT/s. nVidia couldn't even quite reach the 5.0 GT/s level that is the PCIe 2.0 spec, but it really doesn't matter since PCIe 2.0 makes no differenc today - it might in the future. The MCP is a 2-generations agao 570 MCP.

    Changing an ID string and stamping a chip with a new name does not make it new technology. The chipset works well and will fill in for a short period until nVidia introduces their new chipset that will support 1600 FSB and DDR3.

  • Frumious1 - Wednesday, December 19, 2007 - link

    I understand why Anand used 8800 Ultra cards. That was the point of his article: Tri-SLI. Not chipset or anything else. And I'm guessing you're right that PCIe 2.0 is nothing and won't impact performance for probably years - in fact, I bet PCIe x8 is sufficient for everything we currently do, since ATI and nVidia use bridge connections for most card-to-card communications in SLI/CF. I'd still love to see an actual test that proves this is the case.

    You and I and everyone else can assume all we want, but without a test we don't actually KNOW. Since the only PCIe 2.0 cards are 8800GT (and the new GTS) and 3850/3870, and since this is an nVidia chipset, I just thought it would be good to prove and not guess at what impact PCIe 2.0 has. Maybe nVidia does benefit in some situations on SLI setups. Not likely, but maybe.
  • Frumious1 - Tuesday, December 18, 2007 - link

    PS - if you don't have two 8800 GT cards floating around for PCIe 2.0 tests, you need to slap nVidia! Besides Penryn, that's the only feature worth testing on the new chipset.
  • masteryoda34 - Monday, December 17, 2007 - link

    This is probably the most disappointing recent motherboard launch from Nvidia. The only reason I could see buying this over an Intel P35 or X38 is for the SLI support. It's unfortunate they didn't use a new chipset. Basically the same as when they did NF4 to NF5, no new features just processor support.
  • anandtech02148 - Monday, December 17, 2007 - link

    with all these bulky graphic card pile up.. why dont' they just make a dongle connector for all the Sata ports.
    that or i need someone with sausage fingers that can reach all the sata ports.
    and i guess the graphic guys realy want to rub out the audio cards.

  • Wesley Fink - Monday, December 17, 2007 - link

    Actually the SATA ports are still accessible even with 3 double width graphics cards in Triple SLI. If you click to blow up the motherboard images on p.6 you will see the SATA ports are located so they fall just to the right of the first PCIe slot.

    You're right about audio though. Fortunately the on board is hi-def Azalia, but many will want a better audio card for 3-way SLI gaming.
  • customcoms - Monday, December 17, 2007 - link

    Should be 650i, not 750i. Page 3.
  • Wesley Fink - Monday, December 17, 2007 - link

    Corrected to 650i the first reference in the last paragraph. Thanks.
  • littlebitstrouds - Monday, December 17, 2007 - link

    Got some broken links here. Nothing works for me past the second page. Keep getting taken to the search feature.
  • JarredWalton - Monday, December 17, 2007 - link

    Had some server problems today - sorry about that. The article was pulled and we couldn't get things up and running properly until now.

    --Jarred

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